- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.org
- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.org
Summary
Trump has rejected the EU’s “zero-for-zero” tariff offer on cars and industrial goods, demanding instead that the bloc commit to purchasing $350 billion of American energy to offset the trade deficit.
Following his implementation of 20% tariffs on EU goods last week, which triggered significant market downturns, Trump indicated openness to negotiations while emphasizing his “America First” stance.
He also criticized EU product standards as “non-monetary barriers” designed to block American exports.
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Wait, isn’t this just extortion? Smashing in a shop’s windows and telling the owner if he wants to put in new ones he needs to pay the guy with the bat first.
Always has been.
This is just Mafia like extortion. It doesnt really matter now if/when these tariffs are undone - Trump has totally destroyed the US reputation as a reliable ally and trade partmer.
No deal with the US is worth the paper its written on, as everything is dependent on the whims of one person.
Presidential systems are sources of weakness and instabilty it seems. They’re no better than monarchs, and the whole system can easily be twisted into dictatorship. Look at Russia and now the US.
He also crippled the trust in us tech. It will be a slow change but the EU will eventually get rid of Microsoft 365.
And Azure (process is already running at work) and Google workplace like things (searching for a eu partner).
Turns out that allowing people to choose from a very limited pool of potential rulers every couple of years doesn’t actually give them any real power over their society, and maybe it’s just a way to delay revolution while the true ruling class gets all the benefits of the old monarchs with almost none of the blowback, because we’re all too divided over which potential ruler is less blatantly evil to address the real problems.
It’s a very effective method of social control, but it would be a really bad idea for one of the de facto ruling class to try to step into the de jure ruler’s office and try to run it for himself like a dictator. That would probably blow up in his face.
It’s a classical pol sci example for how to do or not do things. Emerging democracy’s that adapts presidential systems are far easier to go back to a dictatorship than a semi presidential or parliamentary system is. So all US advisors in south America pushed for presidential systems.
The EU are currently trying the carrot (offering zero for zero), Next comes the stick (targeted import and export tarrifs)… it would hurt the EU, but cripple the US.
Just tariff cloud stocks, watch everything crumble.
Coordinate with China on this shit. The EU and China may have their differences, but they have a common goal here and together they substantially outweigh the US
I think there is a possibility for an EU, China, Canada plus others… agreement to smooth over the gap from loss of US trade.
Maybe we are going to see a unification of the world over this! Everyone rallies together to fight the U.S. tariffs, and then there’s no more U.S.! World peace at last. Thanks Trump!
I love the vision but despite everything we’re still human.
Yeah!! I hope the rest of the world isolates and ices out the US from global trade. It can be done!!!
Yaay uh oh we’re all governed by China now :x
Or choose to ignore us American interlecutal property and start the second golden age of piracy
EU should target the services. US exports services like google, meta etc than goods. If that happens, US goes to depression.
That one could be trickier as many Europeans work for the US big service companies ( Microsoft, Google etc…)
I don’t live anywhere in the northern hemisphere and I can’t say I know much about economy and international affairs. Which targeted tariffs you think the EU will impose that will cripple US?
Either tariff all big tech companies or just outright ban them from being allowed in the public sector. If you ban amazon, microsoft, google, meta, etc then the US economy will be in shambles. Big techs revenue is like ~10% of the total US GDP.
The EU will never ban them.
No, but the plan is floating around to tax EU used data for foreign companies right into unprofitablily.
Yes, EU politicians are grateful and honest, they’d never betray someone who has paid them so many bribes over so many years.
And so will be almost every EU company/government/institution.
Nah. They have been preparing for this for years. There are ready to use replacement for most of the really important pieces of software. This would be the big push that was always needed to get technological independence from the US.
Horse shit to be frank. Aws and google cloud are huge and companies move slowly, if the top 100 euro companies decided to all get off these platforms now it would take months and months of unplanned intense effort and money
it would take months and months of unplanned intense effort and money
You know how much it costs EU taxpayers and customers to pay for the usage and licensing of US tech? Its absolutely absurd and most companies here are fed up with it. They will take any good alternative if its presented to them in a trustworthy manner.
The move to cloud based stuff was mostly vibes and marketing based. On prem has been shown to be cheaper, more reliable, more secure, more flexible.
If its so expensive, why doesn’t European companies make more competitive alternatives?
Yes,I work in retail in IT , absolutely no cloud in use here 😉
I’m not no sure. 90%+ of these services are commodities and nobody gives a damn who the provider is from a technical perspective. There’s no physical component, so it’s literally a matter of signing a contract, spinning up a server/service, move the data and point everything to the new service.
And yeah, there are technical issues that come up, and nothing is ever that easy. But think about how fast many, many companies were able to sort that kind stuff out when the had to when COVID hit.
And that’s the thing. Cloud service disruption can be an existential crisis, so why would you leave it in the hands of a hostile foreign power?
There are physical data centres that are not trivial to build and run. As I understand it, these tend to be run by the big US tech companies. So if you switch to EU service companies that are still using AWS, Google Cloud or Azure backends, you haven’t really switched away from US tech companies.
Some of the companies I have been working with were already beginning to leave. The realization that cloud pricing will only go up AND being locked into it made them very wary. Some of the planning was already underway, this may only accelerate those plans.
Great for them, there will be a lot that only just got through their first painful migrations
They have been preparing? You sure about that?
Yup. Ignore all the buzzwords in this lol https://euro-stack.eu/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/EuroStack_2025.pdf
The EU has been funding and pushing for locally run tech for a while. Matrix is increasingly becoming the base layer for all public sector communications for example. The biggest thing holding back locally developed stuff is just the easy availability of US based solutions. Take that out of the equation and people will just switch to the next best thing, which is usually not much of a downgrade.
More likely, they have been discussing about maybe starting official talks about what it would take to prepare, hypothetically.
But that doesn’t mean there aren’t alternatives to most big tech services that could be setup quickly. I personally ditched Amazon (shop and video… AWS doesn’t depend on me personally) Meta and most of Google without sweating too much. Also, while convenient, none of their consumer tech is critical; we’ve lived without any of it until recently enough, so we could probably adapt to do without it for a while if we had to.
The parts I think (and I’m not an expert by any means) where Europe is completely vulnerable are payment/banking systems and advanced electronics.
On electronics, there’s also China, which isn’t a great alternative to depend on… But if Trump decided to weaponize SWIFT or the major credit cards, could he switch most of our banking system off?
SWIFT is actually European - Belgian in fact, it’s just that the US has an outsized influence through the dollar. Visa and Mastercard has several EU alternatives, the only caveat with them is that each of them only works in their respective countries.
I think SEPA mitigates that dependency on Visa/MasterCard. Not being an expert I think the main issue is banks resisting change (and most likely getting kickbacks).
Electronics come from China and Taiwan anyway (i’m considering Intel/AMD CPUs as “advanced electronics” and even on that there are EU-babysteps towards advancing RISC-V).
Yes
Lol not a chance. Maybe there’s been some work in the public sector, but remove Amazon and MS and you’ll remove the vast majority of companies.
The EU should push for their own cloud and “encourage” (ie “there’s a chance that in 5 years you won’t be able to use anything that’s not in the EU, better prepare”) companies and the public administration to migrate.
I personally am loving the non-tarrif retaliation by China on the US. Basically banning exports to the US of critical minerals that only they produce. Love to see it.
EU tariffs alone would not be that painful on their own, but add in Asian tarrifs and perhaps some South American numbers… maybe bring the penguins in too.
Just say no EU. The more he hears the word the more it will drive home how wrong he is. Of course his type is incapable of admitting that they are wrong.
He also criticized EU product standards as “non-monetary barriers” designed to block American exports.
lol, lmfao even
product standards exist for a reason.
how about no, fuckface
oh my good lord he’s and actual toddler
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We don’t put children in charge of shit they don’t understand for a reason. You don’t understand that, either.
These are mob tactics. He is adopting the fucking Sopranos as international policy. This isn’t childish, it’s thuggish.
How about you fuck off and let people speak their mind on the Internet you creep
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They should say “okay but only green energy, no oil or gas”
Please send solar panels Sincerely,
-Europe
I guarantee that all of a sudden the only energy the USA produces would be green. (According to the USA)
That’s why they want Greenland.
FUCK YOU TRUMP
This fucking moron. So he shuts down green energy initiatives here, tries to push oil, then tries to force other countries to buy dirty energy. Fucks sake man it’s something new every day.
Sounds like there won’t be any good faith negotiations with the US.
This sounds like BS, does the US even have enough capxitt or export $350 billion worth of energy (oil, LNG?).
Even I can sell $350B worth of energy if I increase the price enough.
That is one expensive AAA battery.
Too much effort. Just don’t deliver
But he said the tariffs were permanent. This was not a ‘negotiating’ tactic. Oh wait, he fucking lied, like he does every time he breathes. This is the “art of the deal”, AKA the bad deal. What an idiot bully con man. President Felon.
They basically are permanent if his alternative is the EU buying the entire GDP of Finland in extra LNG every year
What nobody realized is that the “art” in “art of the deal” was one of those modern “monkey threw feces at the wall” type of art pieces.
The Shart of the Deal.
Wait, wait, wait.
Trump, under the direction of parties unknown, is trying to force the EU to buy U.S. energy resources, and that’s the linchpin of his trade war with them?
Is he trying to give Europe a nudge back to Russian oil supplies?
If you’re a (western) European leader returning to Russian energy is at best shortsighted amnesia, at worst blatant malfeasance. There’s several reasons to not go back to Russia:
- Official legal based sanctions on Russian energy
- Ukrainian drone based ‘sanctions’ on Russian energy
- Russia’s track record of energy blackmail/hybrid warfare
- LNG and oil production available in your EEZ/the EU, albeit at higher cost than imported
- Domestic solar, hydro, and wind manufacturing/generation is ramping up
- French nuclear energy exports
- Domestic politics ie. voters turning against Russian imperial aggression/expansionism
Eastern Europe has a slightly different incentive mix, but there’s still a lot of reasons to not
Those are very well considered points, but Trump is an idiot.
tRump is an idiot influenced by putin.
Most of these are not really a problem though, even less for the kind of psychos that run the EU. Sanctions can be lifted, and Ukraine shouldn’t be able to do much against both Russia and the EU. While renewables and nuclear are increasing, Russian energy could help until they are 100% ready. Voters won’t do much if they are told “see, the US is trying to scam us, and in these trying times we’ve struck a deal with Russia and you’ll be paying less for power and heat”.
The problem with striking a deal with Russia is that it’s not the most reliable partner right now (your 3rd point), but the people in charge can ignore the rest and have no problems sleeping.
Edit: this is not a defense of Russia but a critique of the powers that be in the EU.
So what do you suggest here? I see no reasonable option…
Commit to renewables. I’d advocate for a nuclear powered off-ramp from fossils whilst renewable capacity and infrastructure is built, but I get that each nation has its own history with fission.
Energy security is fundamental for a robust society and economy - otherwise you’re subject to pipeline shutoffs/attacks, oil embargoes/quotas, or another angle for outside nations to influence or control you. For example, if you’re chill with the French and build your economic strategy around buying their surplus energy, that strategy predicated on the French having a surplus to sell you.
Or y’know, give Canada somewhere else to sell theirs.
EU should squeeze the Tariff wokism out of Snowflake Trump.
Amerikkka can fuck off.
