Comtief

If its so expensive, why doesn’t European companies make more competitive alternatives?

Fair enough… I meant more in the lines of Europe appeasing (germany in particular) appeasing Russia, but then again, Russia is not directly at war with Germany.

I don’t think the issue is growth related, I think it’s rather about more and more money going to the top 1%. And that issue is accelerated in USA due to badly regulated corporate capitalism. Greedy shareholders and short time thinking are signs of that, because they keep getting away with it. Looks like this isn’t going to change until there is a massive crash…

In addition, (actual!) anti-corruption legislation has a massive potential to hurt right-wingers, because their politics is oriented toward defending/opposing particular groups of people (blind loyalty) rather than defending/opposing values (morality).

Right, which is why it can still be a good change, even if done my a corrupt party… Granted, if its done right or done at all. Like, in an ideal world, sure lets throw the bribery thing in there as well. But you know, lets be realistic and go one step at a time…

Yeah but that’s what i’m saying, given that this same CDU is one of the two parties behind the coalition talks for banning far-right politicians. Only a sarcastic comment would suggest them to do a similar vote against bribery which would get rid of a lot of CDU politicians themselves. Why would they do that if they are corrupt, vote against their own interests?

So, then why suggest this at all? Clearly to steer the discussion away from the original topic - banning far- right politicians.

I do appreciate the info tidbit there that CDU are corrupt, but I don’t appreciate the distraction. Or that was my point, anyway.

I don’t necessarily disagree, although I don’t see it so extremely. I also don’t think that in the worst case scenario where USA goes full backstab mode, we somehow get super tough and independent and magically make our own alternatives to everything they provide or find them elsewhere. It would be a massive long term economic and quality of life hit, there is no way around that. Europe is also aging and the rest of the world is also slowly catching up and culturally and politically they are more different from us than USA.

I mean… to be fair. Could this work? Better open source and shit than closed source and shit, am i right…

Yes, now are arriving at the crux of the disagreement. I disagree, I think USA has been a lot more helpful than unhelpful, not to mention WWII. But I think this would be moot to argue about because neither of us will budge on our opinion.

Anyway, given that difference in how we see USA, I think they are potentially still much easier to work with than much of the rest of the world and we can mutually benefit from each other A LOT, granted that USA gets it shit together. Yes I understand that you disagree with that, but this is my point.

I have very low faith in the current administration of USA, they need to get rid of that shit. Or even better, just abolish the whole 2 party system, democrats are not that great either, get rid of lobbying and the rampant corporatism and then we’re talking… I know this seems pretty impossible right now, but I’m just saying if they did all that, they would be an amazing partner to Europe.

I still think that even the way USA has been until recently, they have still been a big net positive to Europe, but I also agree that Europe has gotten complacent, especially after the cold war. I just don’t think US working against us would wake us up so much that we would somehow elevate ourselves to some better level. In reality we would likely have to start aligning more with China, which is a lot yuckier.

I don’t think so, I think I made a point and then you are arguing a different point entirely.

My point is that having USA, as a RELIABLE partner who DOES NOT have this toxic side (the true face they are showing), would be more beneficial for Europe, than an USA that is working against us. It is quite impossible to have a healthy partnership with any country on earth and that being bad for us somehow. Granted, if its doesn’t make us too dependent on them. But I’m talking about a partner that WOULD NOT be like that.

There is just no way you disagree with that.

our efforts are best spent elsewhere

they are not, its not an either-or.

I’m not saying this shake-up is not good, I’m saying USA permanently not being an ally would be bad. Obviously we would want to be more independent and strong and less reliable, but that doesn’t mean we need to fight USA over greenland or have permanent trade wars with them or whatever.

well he does seem to admire Putin after all

I did. My point is that europe would be better off with USA as a reliable partner rather than whatever it currently is. Nowhere have I said that it means we need to somehow make it work with the current USA administration or that nothing has to change whatsoever. But in principle, it would be much better to have USA as a partner rather than as an enemy. I’m not even saying it is realistic right now, I am saying, in general, it would be better. And from that one sentence alone what you said, i’m pretty sure you agree. So you are just arguing against something I never said in the first place.

There is a chance for them to get better? Good for them, we will contemplate the possibility for that to be in our interest once I will see it happening.

So you agree. What are we even talking about then?

I don’t think he works for Putin (or well, who knows), but I think he admires fascism and fascists put ideology above economy, so that tracks.

Nations that trade extensively with each other don’t go to war.

To be fair, that didn’t work with Russia.

I mean… who knows what he wants, maybe he wants to crash the economy.

Where did I suggest you should try anything? It seems like you are changing the topic. Let’s try to keep on track, please. I’m saying Europe is better off with USA as a reliable ally rather than an unreliable enemy.

Also I don’t know why you suddenly talk about yourself like you are THE Europe lol.

And how helpful has this rest of the world been to europe this far, for example in relation to helping Ukraine? You know, in things that really matter?

i said I use telegram to which you replied i should switch to telegram. I swear half the people on this platform are high…